In Defense of the Book of Hanoch










The objections to the Book of Hanoch were written by a man going by the name of "Daniel ben Ya'acov Ysrael".   The quotes provided were found at his web blog and also from a Facebook conversation that I had with him.    His quotes will be in dark brown.   My words are in blue, Scripture references are in black, and quotes from the Book of Hanoch (Laurence and/or Charles edition) that I use are in dark green.



Over time, periodically, people have asked this or that about the Book of Enoch. Having been busy with the VW-edition the past couple years, I did not wish to be diverted to spend the time to read it; so have always
answered the queries with, "I don't know".



Already we can see that this man "did not wish to be diverted to spend the time to read it".  If that is the case, it becomes apparent from the on-set of his treatise that he is not even seriously considering it.   In his previous answers to the queries was "I don't know". 



But now that it is finished, I took a few hours to skim/read through what I was able to find posted on the internet, labeled as "1 Enoch". I don't know if that means there's also 2 and/or 3? But what was in "1 Enoch" was 'quite' enough!





A few hours to "skim it"?  That's all?  No prayerful research?  Reminder, at this point we are only dealing with Hanoch 1. 



1 Enoch is a book full of "doctrines of demons" (1Tm4:1) and is dedicated to satan and his demons. Furthermore, I seriously doubt it was written by anybody during Enoch's time; Judas' quote, notwithstanding
(Ju1:14-15); which will be addressed near the end.



A book full of "doctrines of demons" - I'm not sure how he has come to this conclusion, as he's not bringing forward his proof, but I will *assume* it is considered a "doctrine of demons" for what he finds contradictory.  We will thoroughly examine his claims. 

"Dedicated to satan and his demons" - he is not quoting anything from the Book of Hanoch that would show that the book is dedicated to "satan and his demons".  This is merely his opinion

1:1  The word of the blessing of Enoch, how he blessed the elect and the righteous, who were to exist in the time of trouble; rejecting all the wicked and unElohimly.

The very first words are a blessing to the elect who are to exist in the time of trouble.  These are those who reject the wicked and un-El-like.  This does not sound like to me a dedication to "satan and his demons".  If he is wrong then he is turning what is a blessing, not only from Hanoch, but from Elohim Himself and calling that blessing a "doctrine of demons" and a dedication to satan! 




I realize that there are theories as to the book's origins. I don't know about them, nor do I have time to research the matter.



Yes, there are theories concerning the origins but he doesn't have the time to research the matter.  Scripture says:

Pro 18:13  He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and shame to him.

I could go on and on with the Scriptures but I won't.  Here's what the "modern scholars" say of the book of Hanoch; mainly the first part which is called the Book of the Watchers:


"...although modern scholars estimate the older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) to date from about 300 BC, and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably to the end of the first century BC"

Although, it is their 'opinion' that it dates from around 300 BC does not prove that it is not very much older than what they assume.  The fact is they have found fragments of the Book of Hanoch written in Aramaic, Greek, and Latin in the Dead Sea Scrolls.  There is a claim that a complete scroll was found written in Aramaic.  It is also found written in the Ge'ez language which is Ethiopic; this is an ancient south Semetic language.  The book itself is found wholly written in that language.  We must understand that all ancient manuscripts are translated into different languages. 

Just because we cannot find the oldest copies of the Book of Hanoch that would have been with Noah on the ark does not mean we throw the book out.  Do we throw out the TaNaK because we cannot find it written in the original Hebrew script?  Do we throw out the "New Testament" books because we do not find them written in the original Hebrew or Aramaic? 

Logically, we must use balanced scales and if we throw out the Book of Hanoch based on not having it in its original written form then we should also throw out the TaNaK and the "New Testament"/Besorah. 




The book speaks for itself. Just as most cults and other teachers of false doctrine can be ascertained usually within a few minutes of browsing their materials, without the need to dig deeply, thus is also the case with this book. My reading was on-the-surface, and I found plenty, without needing to dig deeply into the "depths of satan". (Rev2:24)




Yes, the book does speak for itself and we will see shortly and as for "teachers of false doctrine" teaching what they ought not - we will see.  As we plainly see he has not been willing to "dig deeply" and has only read "on-the-surface".  He is as bold as to call the Book of Hanoch the "depths of satan" without digging deeply. 



To keep this simple, let's observe the things I notated as I read, in order, and then I'll make a few closing remarks. These examples are representative of what is in the book. It is -full- of things just like what we will observe here:

Section I

1:5 It names "Mt Sinai". Let's remember that Enoch lived before the flood, and was "translated" (Heb 11:5) about 700 years before the flood. Most of earth's current geological features came about because of the flood. Thus, did Sinai even exist before the flood?




1:1 The word of the blessing of Enoch, how he blessed the elect and the righteous, >>who were to exist in the time of trouble;<< rejecting all the wicked and unElohimly. Enoch, a righteous man, who was (1) with Elohim, answered and spoke, while his eyes were open, and while he saw a qodesh vision in the heavens. This the angels showed me.

1:2 From them I heard all things, and understood what I saw; that which will not take place in this generation, >>>>but in a generation which is to succeed at a distant period,<<<< on account of the elect.
1:3 Upon their account I spoke and conversed with him, who will go forth from his habitation, the Qodesh and Mighty One, the Elohim of the world:
1:4 Who will hereafter tread upon Mount Sinai; appear with his hosts; and be manifested in the strength of his power from heaven


Did He Tread on Mount Sinai?  He absolutely did.  Will He appear with His host?  Yes, He will.

If this is spoken in prophetic terms then there is no problem.  We should also consider on account of 'who' did he converse with him?  "Their account".  Who is "their"? 
"the elect and the righteous, who were to exist in the time of trouble"

He has a problem with Mount Sinai being mentioned before the flood took place - he is assuming that because Mount Sinai is mentioned that this had to be written after the flood.  Now if this is a reason that he considers the Book of Hanoch to be a "doctrine of demons" then let us consider the Scriptures in the same context.

Gen 2:8  And Yahuah Elohim planted a garden in Ěḏen, to the east, and there He put the man whom He had formed.
Gen 2:9  And out of the ground Yahuah Elohim made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, with the tree of life in the midst of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 2:10  And a river went out of Ěḏen to water the garden, and from there it divided and became four riverheads.
Gen 2:11  The name of the first is Pishon, it is the one surrounding the entire land of Ḥawilah, where there is gold.
Gen 2:12  And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium is there, and the shoham stone.
Gen 2:13  And the name of the second river is Giḥon, it is the one surrounding the entire land of Kush.
Gen 2:14  And the name of the third river is Ḥiddeqel, it is the one which goes toward the east of Ashshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

For the sake of this rebuttal I'm not going to look all these names up, anyone who is truly interested can go look for themselves.  The point I am making is some of these rivers mentioned still exist and some of these lands that are mentioned still exist; particularly the well-known river EUPHRATES.  Also the land of KUSH and the land of ASHSHUR

Are the Scriptures a "doctrine of demons"?  In his context how could Genesis speak of lands and rivers that exist after the flood?  Well, he's suggesting Hanoch has to be false because it mentions Mount Sinai so Genesis must be false also because it mentions lands and rivers that exist after the flood.  We cannot disqualify one without disqualifying the other.  The fact is, there could have been a Mount Sinai even before the flood as we know for a fact there was a Euphrates River and the land of Cush and the land of Ashshur.  But what we don't know is if they are in the exact same spot; yet, they could be. 




2:3 Mentions "summer and winter". The seasons did not come to be until after the flood. (Gen8:22)

2:3 Speaks of "rain". Again, before the flood, it did not rain, but a "mist" watered the earth. (Gen2:5-6)

4:1 Another mention of "summer"



3:2 .....They behold the earth, and understand what is there transacted, >>>>>>>from the beginning to the end of it.<<<<<<<

3:3 They see that every work of Elohim is invariable in the period of its appearance. They behold summer and winter: perceiving that the whole earth is full of water; and that the cloud, the dew, and the rain refresh it.


Prophetic in nature... Does it rain?
  Who is "they" mentioned at the beginning of 3:2?  Those who were to exist in the time of the end.  It does not say "we behold the earth".  Clearly we are to understand what has transacted from the beginning to the end. 

Even pre-flood the first half of the year could have been referred to as summer and the second half as winter and there could have been a varying degree of temperatures... No?  Just like the first part of the "24-hour" day is called 'day' and the second part of the "24-hour" day is called 'night'.  Day by definition can mean 'hot', so at night it would be 'cool' and there's no reason to believe, nor do the Scriptures suggest, that prior to the flood that the first half of the year could have been warmer than the second half of the year which could have been cooler. 

Gen 8:22 as long as the earth remains, seed time and harvest, and cold and heat, and winter and summer, and day and night shall not cease.”

If you are suggesting that summer and winter did not exist before the flood than neither did "seed time and harvest, and cold and heat, and day and night".... The Torah does not state that there was no variation of temps before the flood.

Let's look at the definitions for 'summer' (H7019) and 'winter' (H2779) -

H7019

קַיִץ
qayits
kah'-yits
From H6972; harvest (as the crop), whether the product (grain or fruit) or the (dry) season: - summer (fruit, house).

H2779

חֹרֶף

chôreph
kho'-ref
From H2778; properly the crop gathered, that is, (by implication) the autumn (and winter) season; figuratively ripeness of age: - cold, winter ([-house]), youth.


As his focus is on 'summer' and 'winter' we can see that the Hebrew words are relating 'summer' to the dry season, the time of harvesting grain or fruit; we can see that 'winter' is related to another ingathering that comes in the time of the autumn; which would have occurred before the flood.  Now if he is taking his personal definition of 'winter' as meaning ice, snow, and blustery cold then he is not using the Scriptural definition

But we have to remember, he didn't "dig too deep".

I guess I would have some questions and they are -

  • In the equatorial region, where the climate stays very moderate, would there still be a 'summer' and 'winter'?  
  • Would there still be 'cold' and 'heat'? 
  • Would there still be 'seedtime' and 'harvest'? 

Of course there would. 



6:6 Names "Mt Hermon". For the same reasons as Sinai (above); did it yet exist during Enoch's time? Thus, the notion that it was not written by Enoch, but by people after the flood.



7:7 Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, (4) which is the top of mount Armon.

7:8 That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, (5) and bound themselves by mutual execrations.

Are you suggesting that mounts cannot be named using a prior name?

Did you know there is a Goshen, Indiana?

What was the name of the erets (earth) prior to the flood? There is nothing wrong with seeing mounts or rivers or lands named the same after the flood.  As has been 100% proven by the Scriptures, there are rivers and lands with the same name as prior to the flood.  There is absolutely no reason to discount Mount Hermon being mentioned.




10:20 God telling angels (Michael) to cleanse the earth from sin...not Yehoshua? It is "..the blood of Yehoshua Messiah His Son" that "cleanses us from every sin." (1Jn1:7)



This is unbelievable... absolutely out of context.

Charles edition:

10:20/21a  And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all Elohimlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth 21 destroy from off the earth.


Gen 6:12 And Elohim looked upon the earth and saw that it was corrupt – for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth
Gen 6:13 and Elohim said to Noaḥ, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them. And see, I am going to destroy them from the earth.


That is not about cleansing people of their sins, is about cleansing the earth...

This is no different than fire cleansing the earth...

Way out of context...

1 Kepha 3:20 who were disobedient at one time when the patience of Elohim waited in the days of Noaḥ, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight beings, were saved through water,
1 Kepha 3:21 which figure now also saves us: immersion – not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward Elohim – through the resurrection of Yahusha Messiah,


Will you throw this out??? "were saved through water, "

Would you dare state, "That is a LIE... Only Yahuah can save." ???




10:21 With this cleansing the angels effect...men will be "righteous".  The Bible says that righteousness comes from God through Messiah.  (2Cor5:21) and it is the "righteousness of God" (Rom3:22); not angels. Angels are "ministers". (Heb1:7,14)

13:4 The demons ask Enoch to intercede for them. Since when? If anything, Paul informs us that the saints will "judge" the angels (demons are fallen angels). (1Cor6:3)




13:6 Beseeching me to write for them a memorial of supplication, that they might obtain forgiveness; and that I might make the memorial of their prayer ascend up before the Elohim of heaven; because they could not themselves thenceforwards address Him, nor raise up their eyes to heaven on account of the disgraceful offense for which they were judged.
13:7 Then I wrote a memorial of their prayer and supplications, for their spirits, for everything which they had done, and for the subject of their entreaty, that they might obtain remission and rest.


Intercede does not mean judge. And did not the demons plead with Yahusha? Demons can speak you know.  Anyway, i think that was concerning the watchers.  There is no problem with them looking to Hanoch, the righteous one, to intercede for them.  Don't we look to Yahusha to intercede for us??? And Hanoch's interceding had nothing to do with him making any judgment call.

"they could not themselves thenceforwards address Him, nor raise up their eyes to heaven on account of the disgraceful offense for which they were judged"

At the time they asked Hanoch to plead for them they had already been judged. 


Charles edition

10:11 And Yahuah said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves 12 with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is consummated.


As we can see, the judgment came from YAHUAH - not Michael and not Hanoch. 

Do you do intercessory prayer for others
Daniel ben Ya'acov Ysrael?  Better stop... 



13:7 Mentions the "land of Dan". Israel did not yet exist.

13:10 Enoch reprimands the angels. Judas1:8-10 speaks of this. It would seem that this passage provides the basis for those Judas condemns, who "speak evil of dignitaries"; and gives the example how Michael, even, would not rebuke satan, but says, "The Lord rebuke you". (Ju1:9) Since Enoch "walked with God" it seems highly unlikely he would have done this.




13:8 Proceeding on, I continued >>>over the waters of Danbadan<<<, (16) which is on the right to the west of Armon, reading the memorial of their prayer, until I fell asleep.


It says "waters of Danbadan" --- That is quite an assumption...  It could have been a lake or it could have been land.  But 'Dan' means judge or judgement right???  And it's ridiculous to think that there couldn't be any lands or rivers named the same, or even in the same locations.  As as been proven from the Scriptures themselves.  Anyway, it says "Danbadan" - not "Dan".

13:9 And behold a dream came to me, and visions appeared above me.  I fell down and saw a >>>vision of punishment,<<< >>that I might relate it to the sons of heaven, and reprove them<<. When I awoke I went to them. All being collected together stood weeping in Oubelseyael, which is situated between Libanos and Seneser, (17) with their faces veiled.
13:10 I related in their presence all the visions which I had seen, and my dream;
13:11 And began to utter these words of righteousness, >>reproving the Watchers of heaven.<<

The reproof was what he was shown to give them through a dream.

You know like what prophets do???


Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the fruitless works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2Ti 4:2 Proclaim the Word! Be urgent in season, out of season. Reprove, warn, appeal, with all patience and teaching.

There was nothing wrong with Hanoch relaying the vision of punishment or reproving them... no more than we are supposed to do ourselves.  Which is exactly what this whole reproving is about.




Section II

39:1 Holy children mixing seed with the children of men. I don't quite have an answer to this one, because men become "holy" through faith in Messiah. And if there are "holy" ones, and sinners, the holy ones are not to be "unequally yoked" with unbelievers. (2Cor6:14) The place where Scripture speaks of the mixing of seed with humanity is in Gen6:1-2, and that was a bad thing, part of the corruption, for which reason God destroyed the world with the flood. The only other similar kind of passage in Scripture is Dan2:43; and there, too, the context of end events is NOT 'good'.



For CONTEXT let us begin reading in chapter 38:

Chapter 38
 

1 Parable the first. When the congregation of the righteous shall be manifested; and sinners be judged for their crimes, and be troubled in the sight of the world;

2 When righteousness shall be manifested (38) in the presence of the righteous themselves, who will be elected for their good works duly weighed by Yahuah of spirits; and when the light of the righteous and the elect, who dwell on earth, shall be manifested; where will the habitation of sinners be? And where the place of rest for those who have rejected Yahuah of spirits? It would have been better for them, had they never been born.

(38) When righteousness shall be manifested. Or, "when the Righteous One appears" (Knibb, p. 125; cp. Charles, p. 112).

3 When, too, the secrets of the righteous shall be revealed, then shall sinners be judged; and impious men shall be afflicted in the presence of the righteous and the elect.

4 From that period those who possess the earth shall cease to be powerful and exalted. Neither shall they be capable of beholding the countenances of the qodesh; for the light of the countenances of the qodesh, the righteous, and the elect, has been seen by Yahuah of spirits. (39)

(39) For the light…Lord of spirits. Or, "for the light of Yahuah of spirits will have appeared on the face of the qodesh, the righteous, and the chosen" (Knibb, p. 126).

5 Yet shall not the mighty kings of that period be destroyed; but be delivered into the hands of the righteous and the qodesh.

6 Nor thenceforwards shall any obtain commiseration from Yahuah of spirits, because their lives in this world will have been completed.



39:1 In those days shall the elect and qodesh race descend from the upper heavens, >and their seed shall then be with the sons of men.< Enoch received books of indignation and wrath, and books of hurry and agitation.


"In those days" - This is speaking of the time after the world is judged and Yahusha returns with the 144,000 who will rule and reign from Mount Tzion.  In short, we have to understand that the chosen elect  were chosen before the foundations of the earth were laid.  They are the ones who will become the sons of Elohim.  They will be translated from the fleshly body that now exists and rule and reign for the 1,000 years over the sons of men who survive and are brought in during the 1,000 year reign.  Please go read Ezekiel about the third temple to understand that there will be those who are of flesh and blood (sons of men) and there will be those of the qodesh race, referred to as the elect, whose bodies will be changed in the first resurrection.  They will live among the sons of men.  This is NOT talking about mixing a qodesh 'seed' literally into the sons of men.

Yet, from the demonic perspective, as in the days of Noah, they will try to accomplish this again.  But we cannot take these things out of context.  Which, so far, is all that has been happening.

Why don't we try looking for context before jumping to conclusions...

Mat 13:24 Another parable He put before them, saying, “The reign of the heavens has become like a man who sowed good seed in his field,

The good seed is the sons of the reign that has been planted in the earth.




67:2 Angels make a "wooden" something-or-other (missing word)...to "preserve seed" And yet, Scripture is quite clear, that -NOAH- built the ark at God's command. (Gen6:14~)




Why not read to try and understand...

66:1 In those days the word of Elohim came to me, and said, Noah, behold, your lot has ascended up to me, a lot void of crime, a lot beloved and upright.
66:2 Now then shall the angels labour at the trees; (61) but when they proceed to this, I will put my hand upon it, and preserve it.

(61) Shall…labour at the trees. Or, "are making a wooden (structure)" (Knibb, p. 156).

66:3 The seed of life shall arise from it, and a change shall take place, >>>>that the dry land shall not be left empty.<<<<

If this is concerning the ark, what is the problem with the messengers helping?

Gen 6:14 “Make yourself an ark of gopherwood. Make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with tar.

This is not against Scripture..


Exo 23:20 “See, I am sending a Messenger before you to guard you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
Exo 23:21 “Be on guard before Him and obey His voice. Do not rebel against Him, for He is not going to pardon your transgression, for My Name is in Him.

Do we see anything mentioned that would exclude the messengers from helping?  No.  Does the Scriptures tell us that the sons of Noah helped?  I don't think so.  The point is if Elohim told Noah to make the ark and we want to use that as if Noah is the only one that could have done it then his sons could not have helped.  I think this is quite a stretch to throw out the Book of Hanoch because it could show that the messengers helped with laboring at the trees. 




Note: Throughout the entire book, the emphasis is on 'angels' and 'spirits'. Angels do things, give commands, and are listed and named.


Everything you just said right there are things that are also mentioned in the Scriptures. I could go over account after account in the Torah throughout all Scriptures mentioning what the messengers do, how they've helped men, how they have commanded men, and how they have fought for men, even giving names of different messengers etc, etc

Will you therefore hold the Scriptures as accountable as you are the book of Hanoch?  If you suggest that the Book of Hanoch is a "doctrine of demons" because it mentions these things then with an equal scale you must also consider the Scriptures a "doctrine of demons". 



The kind of recognition given to great men, by listing and recording names. Not very much at all about God. It's as if God is somehow 'incidental'...



Not at all - that is an absolute assumption as we know the very same things you're accusing Hanoch for being bad is also found in the Scriptures.  I realize you have not "dug deeper" and only "skimmed" the book so allow me to help you see something it is obvious you missed:  

6:4 But you endure not patiently, nor fulfill the commandments of Yahuah; but you transgress and calumniate his greatness; and malignant are the words in your polluted mouths against his Majesty.

22:14-15: Then I blessed Elohim,  And said, Blessed by my Master, Yahuah of esteem and of righteousness, who reigns over all for ever and for ever.

24:8 He answered me, saying, That mountain which you behold, the extent of whose head resembles the seat of Yahuah, will be the seat on which shall sit the qodesh and great Master of Esteem, the everlasting King, when he shall come and descend to visit the earth with goodness.
9 And that tree of an agreeable smell, not one of carnal odor, there shall be no power to touch, until the period of the great judgment. When all shall be punished and consumed for ever, this shall be bestowed on the righteous and humble. The fruit of the tree shall be given to the elect. For towards the north life shall be planted in the qodesh place, towards the habitation of the everlasting King.
10 Then shall they greatly rejoice and exult in the Qodesh One. The sweet odor shall enter into their bones; and they shall live a long life on the earth as your forefathers have lived; neither in their days shall sorrow, distress, trouble, and punishment afflict them.
11 And I blessed Yahuah of esteem the everlasting King, because He has prepared this tree for the saints, formed it, and declared that He would give it to them.

Rev 22:1  And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of Elohim and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2  In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:14  “Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city.

80:5 And I magnified Yahuah, on account of his long-suffering and blessing towards the children of the world.

We could go on and on.... but I hope the point has been made.



but the main activity is being done by angels.



Again, the Scriptures give many, many accounts of things being done by messengers. Why hold the book of Hanoch accountable and not the Scriptures?



I suspect, if a person were to study the book more in-depth (which I will not do),




See, right there - you are at a disadvantage and because you say this I can only imagine that what you have provided so far is NOT coming from YOU - but rather coming from someone else's writings because it is obvious you have not studied the book out and you will not give it an honest opportunity.  (We had not realized it at the time this response was given on Facebook, but as stated at the opening of this article it is indeed his writing)

You found something that you feel gives you leave, yet everything that you have provided so far is relatively bogus. I've heard better arguments from these concerning rejecting Sha'ul or the Messiah.

(We'd like to also note that on Facebook he never admitted one way or the other where this writing came from.  It wasn't until we "dug deeper" that we found it was his own.)



one would find the seeds of how most pagans, catholics, and other liturgically-based beliefs view angels. Setting them up to be worshiped. The book has the feel of a document intended to 'teach' people about things not really intended for man at this time: "..worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen.." (Col2:18)





There is no where in the book that even remotely suggests that we should "worship messengers" - it is only giving a description of things that they have done, just like the Scriptures. The book gives the "feel" ? Are those your words when you said you will not study it in depth? In other words, you are just looking for things that appear to go against the Word and run with it?  (And yes, they are his words)

Bad form.

Again, if you reject the book of Hanoch on the terms that you have provided so far then you should also be rejecting, not only the TaNaK but the New 'Testament' also - who will be reaping the earth?  Let's not have unbalanced scales...





72:37 Proclaims the sun and moon to be equal in size. Scripture would not proclaim such a scientific error.




The scientific fact is they appear to be the same size  ???

And where is your Scripture?

And do we know all about the sun? are those flames of any significance? What if the sun's core is the same size as the moon?

The sun is much bigger than the moon, however the moon is much closer - the difference in sizes and distances happens to be almost exactly the same ratio thereby giving the appearance they are equal.  Since the Scriptures suggest that the sun rises does that literally mean that the sun is traveling around the earth and the earth is stationary?  Or is the earth spinning which gives the appearance of the sun rising? 



77:1 South where Most High will descend...Messiah comes "east to west" "For as the lightning comes out of the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." (Mt24:27)


76:1 The first wind is called the eastern, because it is the first.
76:2 The second is called the south, because the Most High there descends, and frequently there descends he who is blessed for ever.

Frequently.  Frequently does not mean 'every single time' and here again, more proof of his "skimming" and taking something out of context.  Is this specifically mentioning the return of the Messiah?  No.  It isn't. 

Scripture says:

Zec 9:14 And Yahuah shall appear for them, and His arrow go forth like lightning, and the Master Yahuah sound the ram’s horn. And He shall go with whirlwinds from the south,
Zec 9:15
Yahuah of hosts shall shield them. And they shall devour and trample on sling stones. And they shall drink, roar as if with wine, and they shall be filled like basins, like the corners of the altar.
Zec 9:16 And
Yahuah their Elohim shall save them in that day, as the flock of His people, for the stones of a diadem, sparkling over His land.


OH!  If ZecharYah is speaking of the return where is He coming from?  The SOUTH.


Eze 20:45 And the word of
Yahuah came to me, saying,
Eze 20:46 “Son of man, set your face toward the south, and drop word against the south and prophesy against the forest land, the South.
Eze 20:47 “And you shall say to the forest of the South, ‘Hear the word of
Yahuah! Thus said the Master Yahuah, “See, I am kindling a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree and every dry tree in you – the blazing flame is not quenched. And it shall burn all faces from the south to the north.
Eze 20:48 “And all flesh shall see that I,
Yahuah, have kindled it, it is not quenched.” ’ ”

Are you seriously saying it's not possible for Him to come in the south and travel east to west reaping as He moves Northward???

Weak argument... not only that, if ZecharYah is to be taken as Yahusha's return then Hanoch is absolutely accurate!  By the way, as the lightning flashes from the east to the west it still has to come to the earth in a location that would either be in the northern hemisphere or the southern hemisphere.   SMH




80:1 All the things about the universe, planets (Enoch is even supposedly whisked off to see the very 'edge' of the universe); and all this is being taught to him by the angel Uriel. Seems somehow reminiscent of Mormon (the name of a demon) teaching: that Adam and Eve traversed to the moon and back.



First of all, "mormon", they say, was the name of a real person.  Moroni was supposedly his son.  The story is he might have appeared as an 'angel' to give the plates to Joseph Smith.  Regardless of what happened with the Mormons, it has nothing to do with the Book of Hanoch.  If he has a problem with messengers showing individuals things then he has a problem with:

Rev 1:1  Revelation of Yahusha Messiah, which Elohim gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,

I don't think I need to quote one more Scripture concerning messengers that are sent to humans.  Because if he rejects Hanoch having a messenger show him things then logically the book of Revelation that shows that Yahusha Himself sent a messenger to Yahuchanon. 

Let's see what the Scripture says about Hanoch -


Gen 5:22 And after he brought forth Methushelaḥ, Ḥanoḵ walked with Elohim three hundred years, and brought forth sons and daughters.
Gen 5:23 So all the days of Ḥanoḵ were three hundred and sixty-five years.
Gen 5:24 And Ḥanoḵ walked with Elohim. Then he was no more, for Elohim took him.


And what do you think Hanoch was doing when he was walking with Elohim??

Heb 11:5 By belief, Ḥanoḵ was translated so as not to see death, “and was not found because Elohim had translated him.” For before his translation he obtained witness, that he pleased Elohim.

Jud 1:14 And Ḥanoḵ, the seventh from Adam, also >>prophesied of these,<< saying, “See, Yahuah comes with His myriads of set-apart ones,

Jud 1:15 to execute judgment on all, to punish all who are wicked among them concerning all their wicked works which they have committed in a wicked way, and concerning all the harsh words which wicked sinners have spoken against Him.”



2:1 Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and unElohimly have done, and committed against him.

You say Elohim would not show Hanoch the extremities of the Heavens???


Rev 1:1 Revelation of Yahusha Messiah, which Elohim gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it >>>>by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,

Rev 21:1 And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.
Rev 21:2 And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Elohim, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the heaven saying, “See, the Booth of Elohim is with men, and He shall dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and Elohim Himself shall be with them and be their Elohim.


You might want to rethink that...

2 Co 12:2 I know a man in Messiah who fourteen years ago – whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, Elohim knows – such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
2 Co 12:3 And I know such a man – whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, Elohim knows –
2 Co 12:4 that he was caught up into Paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not right for a man to speak.


Yet you can not believe Elohim would send a messenger to show Hanoch???

Do you throw out Revelation?

"And He signified it >>>>by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,<<<<

Is that messenger worship?

Do you throw out Shaul?

"such a one was caught up to the third heaven."


Have you not considered?


1:1a The word of the blessing of Enoch, how he blessed the elect and the righteous, who were to exist in the time of trouble;

The book is a blessing to us.. if we can receive it...



82:13 Angels have names as "leaders" of the sun/moon/stars. The angels supposedly are the originators of all the stars, are responsible for them in their orbits and existence; and are the basis for regular festivities (82:9) Sounds a lot like the beginings of astrology and the worship of the "host of the heavens" (De4:19, 2Ki17:16, 21:3,5, etc) Whereas Scripture tells us that the universe was created by God's "fingers" and that He "established" them. (Ps8:3) And He set them for "signs and seasons". (Gen1:14)

Section IV

83:10 Sun is given personality..."him". Seeds of sun-worship; as god's are assumed to have 'personalities'.




You need to be careful, there are differing translations...

82:12 When I went down below, and looking up to heaven, beheld the sun proceeding from the east, the moon descending to the west, a few scattered stars, and everything which Elohim has known from the beginning, >>>I blessed Yahuah of judgment, and magnified him:<<< because He hath sent forth the sun from the chambers (93) of the east; that, ascending and rising in the face of heaven, it might spring up, and pursue the path which has been pointed out to it.

Nothing wrong here.... The blessing was to Yahuah...

83:11 Had I descended underneath and seen the sky, the sun rising in the east, the moon descending in the west, the diminishing of the stars, and the whole earth, I would have recognized everything >>upon her<<. So I blessed YAHWEH of judgment and extolled HIM. For HE has made the sun to come out from the windows of the east; so it ascended and rose upon the face of the sky, starting to go the way that it was shown.

Her, NOT him, and its speaking of the earth NOT the sun...

            "Sun is given personality..."him""

Deu 4:26 “I shall call the heavens and earth to witness against you on that day,

Personality???


Isa 24:23 And the moon shall blush, and the sun shall be ashamed, for Yahuah of hosts shall reign on Mount Tsiyon, and in Yerushalayim, and before His elders, in esteem!

Personality???

Eze 32:7 ‘And when I extinguish you, I shall cover the heavens, and make its stars dark. I shall cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give >>her light.<<

Personality??? Moon worship? 




Section V

92:1 Claims that Enoch "indeed" wrote the book.




91:1>>That which was written by Enoch<<. He wrote all this instruction of wisdom for every man of dignity, and every judge of the earth; for all my children who shall dwell upon earth, and for subsequent generations, conducting themselves uprightly and peaceably.

Does it say everything that was contained therein??  No, it doesn't.  Why would somebody try to falsify a fact that everything written in the whole book was by Hanoch when it clearly shows that it wasn't?

12:5 Then Yahuah said to me: Enoch, scribe of righteousness, go tell the Watchers of heaven, who have deserted the lofty sky, and their qodesh everlasting station, who have been polluted with women.

Noah is speaking here:

64:1 In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached.
2 Then he lifted up his feet, and went to the ends of the earth, to the dwelling of his great-grandfather Enoch. 
3 And Noah cried with a bitter voice, Hear me; hear me; hear me: three times. And he said, Tell me what is transacting upon the earth; for the earth labors, and is violently shaken. Surely I shall perish with it. 
4 After this there was a great perturbation on earth, and a voice was heard from heaven. I fell down on my face, when my great-grandfather Enoch came and stood by me.

We're only taking one quote for an example, to show that Hanoch is not the only one who has anything to say in this book.  We see quotes with what Noah said, there are also quotes of what Methusalah said, and there are parts that Hanoch said himself.   The claim that Hanoch wrote the book is assuming that all of what is contained in all these chapters is one book.  What he is not taking into consideration is this one book called 1 Hanoch contains more than one book.  For instance, chapter 14:

14:1 This is the book of the words of righteousness, and of the reproof of the Watchers....

This is a separate book.

67:1 After this he gave me the characteristical marks (65) of all the secret things in the book of my great-grandfather Enoch, and in the parables which had been given to him; inserting them for me among the words of the book of parables.

First of all, this mentions the book of parables, but I would also like to point out that it appears that this is written from Noah's perspective.  If that is the case, obviously, not everything written in what is called 1 Enoch was written by Hanoch himself. 

71:1  The book of the revolutions of the luminaries of heaven, according to their respective classes...

This is a separate book.  Obviously, there is more than one book contained in the book referred to as 1 Enoch.

But besides all that:

Joh 7:19 “Did not Mosheh give you the Torah?

How do you reconcile this statement with how you're condemning Hanoch?  Did Mosheh actually write all of Genesis? 


Eze 20:11 “And I gave them My laws and showed them My right-rulings, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them.’

Joh 7:23 “If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the Torah of Mosheh should not be broken,

Is this a false testimony because it refers to the "law of Mosheh" when technically it's the Law of Elohim???

Neh 9:13 “And You came down on Mount Sinai, and spoke with them from the heavens, and gave them straight right-rulings and Torah of truth, good laws and commands.

Obviously, it was not the law of Mosheh but rather the law of Elohim but yet it was referred to as the law of Mosheh. Just because there could be parts in the book of Hanoch that weren't technically written by Hanoch doesn't mean that it isn't supposed to be there. 


92:1 Claims that Enoch "indeed" wrote the book.


Which book?  Because there were not only books, as in plural, written; there were also visions written down.



100:10 Claims that God "inquires of the angels" as to one's deeds. It is Yehoshua Messiah who knows humanity to the "division of soul and spirit and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Heb4:12) Why does God need angels to inform Him? God "..knows the secrets of the heart.." (Ps44:21) "O Yehowah, You have searched me and known me. You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thoughts afar off. You have sifted
through my way of life and my lying down, and are familiar with all my ways. For there is not a word on my tongue, but behold, O Yehowah, You know it altogether." (~Ps139:1-4)


99:7 Woe to you, sinners; for with the words of your mouths, and with the work of your hands, have you acted impiously; in the flame of a blazing fire shall you be burnt.
99:8 And now know, that the angels shall inquire into your conduct in heaven; of the sun, the moon, and the stars, shall they inquire respecting your sins; for upon earth you exercise jurisdiction over the righteous.


Better watch the translation you use...




 104:1 Says that angels remember one's good before God. It is Believers who will judge angels (1Cor6:3); not the other way around.



I think you're out of context again, but we can consider some scriptures...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to their works.

Who writes the books?

Deu 19:15 “One witness does not rise up against a man concerning any crookedness or any sin that he commits. At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses a matter is established.

And concerning all the sins to be judged, is it beyond reason that messengers could be inquired of concerning the sins that do not have 2 earthly witnesses???

Deu 4:24 “For Yahuah your Elohim is a consuming fire, a jealous Ěl.
Deu 4:25 “When you bring forth children and grandchildren, and shall grow old in the land, and shall do corruptly and make a carved image in the form of whatever, and shall do what is evil in the eyes of Yahuah your Elohim to provoke Him,
Deu 4:26 “I shall call the heavens and earth to witness against you on that day,

Yahuah is referred to as Yahuah of Hosts and who are the hosts of the heavens?


1 Ki 22:19 Then he said, “Therefore hear the word of Yahuah: I saw Yahuah sitting on His throne, and all the host of the heavens standing by Him, on His right and on His left.
1 Ki 22:20 “And Yahuah said, ‘Who shall entice Aḥaḇ to go up and fall at Ramoth Gilʽaḏ?’ And this one said this, and another said that.
1 Ki 22:21 “And a spirit came forward and stood before Yahuah, and said, ‘Let me entice him.’
1 Ki 22:22 “And Yahuah said to him, ‘In what way?’ And he said, ‘I shall go out and be a spirit of falsehood in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And He said, ‘Entice him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’

Did Yahuah inquire of the host of the heavens concerning Ahab?


Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in the heaven, “Now have come the deliverance and the power and the reign of our Elohim, and the authority of His Messiah, for the accuser of our brothers, who accused them before our Elohim day and night, has been thrown down.

If there is an accuser accusing people of sins that does not necessarily mean that Elohim was 'inquiring' but yet it appears that He was hearing the accusation of the accuser.  The accuser was coming from a standpoint of witnessing against someone of their transgressions.  No?? 


Job 2:1 Again the day came to be that the sons of Elohim came to present themselves before Yahuah, and Satan also came among them to present himself before Yahuah.
Job 2:2 And Yahuah said to Satan, “From where do you come?” And Satan answered Yahuah and said, “From diligently searching in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”
Job 2:3 And Yahuah said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Iyoḇ, that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and straight man, one who fears Elohim and turns aside from evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”
Job 2:4 And Satan answered Yahuah and said, “Skin for skin, and all that a man has he would give for his life!
Job 2:5 “But stretch out Your hand, please, and strike his bone and his flesh – if he would not curse You to Your face!”
Job 2:6 And Yahuah said to Satan, “See, he is in your hand, only spare his life.”
Job 2:7 And Satan went out from the presence of Yahuah, and smote Iyoḇ with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.

Did Yahuah inquire of satan???

“From where do you come?"

Psa 91:11 For He commands His messengers concerning you, To guard you in all your ways.
Psa 91:12 They bear you up in their hands, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.

Luk 13:6 And He spoke this parable, “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
Luk 13:7 “And he said to the gardener, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down, why does it even make the ground useless?’
Luk 13:8 “And he answering, said to him, ‘Master, leave it this year too, until I dig around it and throw manure.
Luk 13:9 ‘And if indeed it bears fruit, good. But if not so, you shall cut it down.’ ”

Luk 8:28 And when he saw Yahusha, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, “What have I to do with You, Yahusha, Son of the Most High Elohim? I beg You, do not torture me!”
Luk 8:29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had seized him many times, and he was bound with chains and shackles, being guarded. And breaking the bonds, he was driven by the demon into the lonely places.
Luk 8:30 And Yahusha asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered into him.

Did Yahusha inquire of the demon???


Gen 18:20 And Yahuah said, “Because the outcry against Seḏom and Amorah is great, and because their sin is very heavy,
Gen 18:21 “I am going down now to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me, and if not, I know.”
Gen 18:22 So the men turned away from there and went toward Seḏom, but Yahuah still stood before Aḇraham.
Gen 18:23 And Aḇraham drew near and said, “Would You also destroy the righteous with the wrong?

What????

He heard an outcry and what??
  “I am going down now to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me, and if not, I know.”

Did He listen to the outcry about sedom and amorah?? And why would He go down to see???


Besides, this did not say the messengers were going to judge.  You are reading something into it that is not there...


104:1 I swear to you, righteous, that in heaven the angels record your goodness before the esteem of the Mighty One.

Heb 13:2 Do not forget to receive strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained messengers.

And you would say they can't record doing well???

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before the throne, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged from what was written in the >>books,<< according to their works.

Who do you think writes the books?

Pro 15:3 The eyes of Yahuah are in every place, Watching the evil and the good.

Isa 59:1 Look, the hand of Yahuah has not become too short to save, nor His ear too heavy to hear.
Isa 59:2 But your crookednesses have separated you from your Elohim. And your sins have hidden His face from you, from hearing.
Isa 59:3 For your hands have been defiled with blood, and your fingers with crookedness; your lips have spoken falsehood, your tongue mutters unrighteousness.

Hab 1:12 Are You not from everlasting, O Yahuah my Elohim, my Set-apart One? You do not die! O Yahuah, You have appointed them for right-ruling, O Rock, You have established them for reproof.
Hab 1:13 You, whose eyes are too clean to see evil, You are not able to look on wrong. Why do You look on those who act treacherously – keep silent when the wrong devours one more righteous than he?

Rev 5:6 And I looked and saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing, as having been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of Elohim sent out into all the earth.

Mat 12:37 “For by your words you shall be declared righteous, and by your words you shall be declared unrighteous.”

Who shall bear record of your words?

1Jn 5:7 Because there are three who bear witness:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement.

Did you know?


Psa 91:11 For He commands His messengers concerning you, To guard you in all your ways.

Psa 104:4 Making His messengers the winds/Ruach/spirits, His servants a flame of fire.

Mat 18:10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in the heavens their messengers always see the face of My Father who is in the heavens.

Does this not suggest that if you despise a little one that there is a messenger before Abba's face that will snitch you out?


Mat 16:27 “For the Son of Aḏam is going to come in the esteem of His Father with His messengers, and then He shall reward each according to his works.

So, what if the messengers record your well doing??




106:1~~ Noah born a super-natural being...

106:2 eyes glowed with sun-like brilliance from birth...speaking from the womb... Just the same way pagan demonic entities are portrayed. When a person is supposedly 'possessed', others know it because their eyes glow, and they speak with a different kind of voice.

106:6 Claims Noah was not conceived from human seed...but from angels. 
Directly contradicting Scripture which proclaims, "These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his        generation. Noah walked with God." (Gen6:9) 




This is not even close, but of course it's not - he only 'skims' -  Please, read it for yourself...

Chapter 105:

1 After a time, my son Mathusala took a wife for his son Lamech.
2 She became pregnant by him, and brought forth a child, the flesh of which was as white as snow, and red as a rose; the hair of whose head was white like wool, and long; and whose eyes were beautiful. When he opened them, he illuminated all the house, like the sun; the whole house abounded with light.
3 And when he was taken from the hand of the midwife, Lamech his father became afraid of him; and flying away came to his own father Mathusala, and said, I have begotten a son, unlike to other children. He is not human; but, resembling the offspring of the angels of heaven, is of a different nature from ours, being altogether unlike to us.
4 His eyes are bright as the rays of the sun; his countenance glorious, and he looks not as if he belonged to me, but to the angels.
5 I am afraid, lest something miraculous should take place on earth in his days.
6 And now, my father, let me entreat and request you to go to our progenitor Enoch, and learn from him the truth; for his residence is with the angels.
7 When Mathusala heard the words of his son, he came to me at the extremities of the earth; for he had been informed that I was there: and he cried out.
8 I heard his voice, and went to him saying, Behold, I am here, my son; since you have come to me.
9 He answered and said, On account of a great event have I come to you; and on account of a sight difficult to be comprehended have I approached you.
10 And now, my father, hear me; for to my son Lamech a child has been born, who resembles not him; and whose nature is not like the nature of man. His colour is whiter than snow; he is redder than the rose; the hair of his head is whiter than white wool; his eyes are like the rays of the sun; and when he opened them he illuminated the whole house.
11 When also he was taken from the hand of the midwife,
12 His father Lamech feared, and fled to me, believing not that the child belonged to him, but that he resembled the angels of heaven. And behold I am come to you, that you might point out to me the truth.
13 Then I, Enoch, answered and said, Yahuah will effect a new thing upon the earth. This have I explained, and seen in a vision. I have shown you that in the generations of Jared my father, those who were from heaven disregarded the word of Yahuah. Behold they committed crimes; laid aside their class, and intermingled with women. With them also they transgressed; married with them, and begot children. (144)

(144) After this verse, one Greek papyrus adds, "who are not like spiritual beings, but creatures of flesh" (Milik, p. 210).

14 A great destruction therefore shall come upon all the earth; a deluge, a great destruction, shall take place in one year.
15 This child which is born to your son shall survive on the earth, and his three sons shall be saved with him. When all mankind who are on the earth shall die, he shall be safe.
16 And his posterity shall beget on the earth giants, not spiritual, but carnal. Upon the earth shall a great punishment be inflicted, and it shall be washed from all corruption. Now therefore inform your son Lamech, that he who is born is his child in truth; and he shall call his name Noah, for he shall be to you a survivor. He and his children shall be saved from the corruption which shall take place in the world; from all the sin and from all the iniquity which shall be consummated on earth in his days. Afterwards shall greater impiety take place than that which had been before consummated on the earth; for I am acquainted with qodesh mysteries, which Yahuah himself has discovered and explained to me; and which I have read in the tablets of heaven.
17 In them I saw it written, that the generation after generation shall transgress, until a righteous race shall arise; until transgression and crime perish from off the earth; until all goodness come upon it.
18 And now, my son, go tell your son Lamech,
19 That the child which is born is his child in truth; and that there is no deception.
20 When Mathusala heard the word of his father Enoch, who had shown him every secret thing, he returned with understanding, and called the name of that child Noah; because he was to console the earth on account of all its destruction.

Lamech thought He was of a messenger but as it says.

"That the child which is born is his child in truth; and that there is no deception."



IT IS HERE THAT THE FACEBOOK COMMENTARY STOPS.  THEN THE WEB BLOG WAS FOUND WHERE DANIEL BEN YA'ACOV YSRAEL CONTINUES ON IN VERY CONDEMNING LANGUAGE CONCERNING THE BOOK OF HANOCH.  I WILL ADDRESS THE POINTS HEREIN:


106:8   Necromancy: communicating with the departed.  Methuselah contacts Enoch after his translation on behalf of Lamech.



Gen 5:24  And Ḥanoḵ walked with Elohim. Then he was no more, for Elohim took (H3947) him.

לָקַח
lâqach
law-kakh'
A primitive root; to take

Heb 11:5
  By belief, Ḥanoḵ was translated (G3346) so as not to see death, “and was not found because Elohim had translated him.” For before his translation he obtained witness, that he pleased Elohim.

μετατίθημι
metatithēmi
met-at-ith'-ay-mee
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange

According to the LXX the Greek word used in Hebrews 11:5 for 'translated' is the same word used in Genesis 5:24 for 'taken'.

What proof does Daniel bring forward that Hanoch was dead when Mathusala sought him out?

105:7 When Mathusala heard the words of his son, he came to me at the extremities of the earth; for he had been informed that I was there: and he cried out. 
8 I heard his voice, and went to him saying, Behold, I am here, my son; since you have come to me.
9 He answered and said, On account of a great event have I come to you; and on account of a sight difficult to be comprehended have I approached you.

First of all, we can see that Hanoch was "translated" so that he did not see death.  This is only an assumption/accusation of necromancy.  As we see the Scriptures themselves confirm that Elohim took him as to not 'see death' we see also with EliYahu who was also 'taken'.  There is no confirmation concerning any time that Hanoch or EliYahu died.  Did Elohim take Hanoch to put him to death?  Or did He take him to further walk with him? 



Enoch couldn't have written it: It contains information that was only known, or in existence, -AFTER- the flood. Enoch was raptured 700 years before the flood. And furthermore, with all these doctrines of demons that it contains, such a man who "walked with God" (Gen5:22,24) would have had no part with demons in the manner suggested in this book.




We have already discussed this. 

Jud 1:14  And Ḥanoḵ, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied of these, saying, “See, Yahuah comes with His myriads of set-apart ones,
Jud 1:15  to execute judgment on all, to punish all who are wicked among them concerning all their wicked works which they have committed in a wicked way, and concerning all the harsh words which wicked sinners have spoken against Him.”

"only known, or in existence, -AFTER- the flood."

Of course he would have - he was a prophet.  Which is no different than Yahuchanon seeing a new heaven and a new earth - Revelation chapter 21.

Rev 21:1  And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.


It is a bit absurd for a person to claim that a prophet cannot see or know of names and places in a future time. 

1:1  The word of the blessing of Enoch, how he blessed the elect and the righteous, who were to exist in the time of trouble; rejecting all the wicked and unElohimly. Enoch, a righteous man, who was (1) with Elohim, answered and spoke, while his eyes were open, and while he saw a qodesh vision in the heavens. This the angels showed me.




Where the Bible proclaims, "Thus says Yehowah", this book of "Enoch" proclaims, essentially, 'thus said the angel/s'.




This is ridiculous...  here are a few examples:

10:1 Then the Most High, the Great and Qodesh One spoke,  

10:6 Again Yahuah said....

10:13 To Gabriel also Yahuah said,...

10:15 To Michael likewise Yahuah said...

12:5 Then Yahuah said to me: Enoch, scribe of righteousness....

12:14 Then Yahuah with his own mouth called me, saying, Approach hither, Enoch, at my qodesh word...

This is what happens when somebody "skims".





So, what about the fact that Judas quotes Enoch? (Ju1:14-15) Indeed, that quote is found in Enoch 1:9. The book practically opens with that quote. Does the fact that Judas quotes it, detract from the authenticity of the epistle of Judas? (That's the book just before Revelation, that has been incorrectly translation by others with the 'catholic' name" Jude")




You are not even using sound reasoning.  First of all, do you believe the book of Yahudah is authentic?  If you do, then you would have to admit that there was a Book of Hanoch.  It just so happens that the quote in the book of Yahudah is almost identical word-for-word straight out of Hanoch.  Now since they claim Hanoch is at least from 300 b.c. then it is an impossibility that somebody plagiarized the book of HanochThey were reading the same book that we are.

The fact that the Roman Catholics changed the name to Jude does not mean a thing.  Do you throw the book of Ya'aqob out because the RCC changed the name to James?   You might also want to take into consideration that it is the RCC and their "angel worshiping" that took the book of Hanoch out of the canon.  Now if the RCC is all about "angel worship" and the book of Hanoch could somehow support that, then you would think they would keep it instead of ditching it. 

The plain fact is the book of Yahudah quotes straight out of the Book of Hanoch which you, Daniel, call a "doctrine of demons". 





I suspect that the book of Enoch actually likely contains many of Enoch's actual words. Just because a book-of-demons contains some true statements, does not make the entire work True. Most false teaching often contains even as much as 95% truth. Satan and his minions are busy deceiving humanity, appearing as "ministers of righteousness".



You suspect??  But yet you throw out the WHOLE book?  Have you ever heard of the "lying pen of the scribes"?  Do you actually believe the Scriptures haven't been tampered with?  If you used a balance scale as we have shown before then you should throw out the Scriptures also. 



(2Cor11:15) In order to appear thus, they have to proclaim at least 'some' truth. Perhaps the writers of Enoch (whoever they may have been), opened with Enoch's well-known quote, for the specific purpose of fooling people into believing it to be a credible work?  What better way, than to put Enoch's "stamp" on the book, right as it opens!  However, the amount of 'truth' in this book is no-where-near 95%. It is so full of falsehood, one is left wondering what may actually be truth!



Ridiculous SPECULATION.  How is that even possible?  Even the modern scholars date the book of Hanoch to at least 300 bc - it didn't come after the book of Yahudah was written which conservative scholars date it between 66 to 90 ad.

How about just accepting that your line of reasoning has, so far, amounted to nothing and that the Book of Yahudah was quoting directly out of the Book of Hanoch?  So you accept that one verse and throw out the rest?  But I suppose since the Catholics renamed it Jude that you're going to throw that out also. 



But even though the book opens with Enoch's words, and also happens to contain some very authentic-seeming 'dreams/visions' of true things regarding Israel, the flood, heaven and hell, etc; the rest of the book is a work of demons. 



Says you.  You have brought no proof forward - again, everything you have said thus far amounts to nothing.  Nothing except you have an unbalance scale.  Because if you held the Scriptures to the same accountability you hold the Book of Hanoch then you would have to throw the Scriptures out also. 

Remember, you said,
"1 Enoch is a book full of "doctrines of demons" (1Tm4:1) and is dedicated to satan and his demons"

You better be very careful in what you say lest you be found a liar.




Certainly, it contains many concepts which cause the reader's mind to wander out to the stars of the ends of the universe, and for the unwary, could captivate their soul to accept these (demonic) "spirits", of which it speaks so much. Yes, it may contain at least 'one' actual quote of Enoch, just as satan also quoted the
Scriptures to Yehoshua when tempting Him (Mt4:6); but the book, itself, is from the very pits of hell!




Sounds like some people I know that talk about the lunar reckoning. . .  You've got a lot of gumption there buddy. 



For the Believer in Yehoshua Messiah, who is versed in the Scriptures, the Book of Enoch should not even raise any questions, as to its evilness!  Now that I've read it, it really surprises (amazes) me that it is even questioned amongst so-called Messiahians!!



So-called?  Okay, I can see that there is a spirit working behind your words and I will not fall captive to its desire to want to say things that I ought not or to search you out.  Elohim is the Judge of all things and your words are before His face.  We will be judged according to our words.



Just be a "Berean" and "search the Scriptures"... are the things it says, "so"? (Ac17:11)  If you know the Scriptures, and then read "Enoch", you will know that it is NOT!  No question!



Pro 18:17  The first to state his own case, seems right, Until another comes and examines him.



So you admonish us to "Just be a "Berean"" but yet you:
  • I did not wish to be diverted to spend the time to read it
  • I took a few hours to skim
  • without the need to dig deeply
  • I don't know about them, nor do I have time to research the matter.
  • My reading was on-the-surface, and I found plenty, without needing to dig deeply into the "depths of satan".
  • I suspect, if a person were to study the book more in-depth (which I will not do),
And this little bit of doubt and suspicion:
"I seriously doubt it was written by anybody during Enoch's time" vs. "I suspect that the book of Enoch actually likely contains many of Enoch's actual words."

Just be a "Berean"

Perhaps he should have taken his own advice.